Curse

eudas · Oct 12, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Oh, you want people into you guild, that join because of a cosmetic change?
I know that I wouldn't like people to join my guild because of a feature like that.
I mean, isn't it more worth having guild mates that are great to hang around with, as well that they are helpful?
I think it is.
For guild improvements I got plenty of other ideas related to that.
But since i don't think that Anet has the time to implement those into GW, I added them to GW2 suggestions.

If that's all they're there for, you don't have to guild invite them. You can just give them guest access and they're good to go.

What I was saying is, it's another feature for your guild hall that can attract members. A marketing bullet point, if you will.

Quote:

About the whole sex/character change.. 1 word.. re-roll.
Hair changes, why not...
Guess I'm still to much old school rpg player.

I don't know about old school, but you definitely have the "Crotchety" part down. sheesh!

eudas

CHunterX · Oct 12, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Why do so many people want to prevent other players from changing their gender, even though it doesn't affect them personally? Not that I would ever change my characters gender, their names wouldn't make sense!
But still... are these the same people who shout against gay marriage, even though it doesn't affect them personally? Honestly, why do you all want to limit the options?

blue.rellik · Oct 12, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Why do so many people want to prevent other players from changing their gender, even though it doesn't affect them personally? Not that I would ever change my characters gender, their names wouldn't make sense!
But still... are these the same people who shout against gay marriage, even though it doesn't affect them personally? Honestly, why do you all want to limit the options?

You heard of the word 'scope' before? How would changing gender fit into a online fantasy game about killing things?

samifly · Oct 12, 2007, 05:32 AM // 05:32

How would it not fit in? I don't understand. The scope of GW is what you want it to be. GW is hardly tied down to lore so much that other features have not been added.

Deadly Eyezz · Oct 12, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Hair dye might be usfull.

blue.rellik · Oct 12, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

How would it not fit in? I don't understand. The scope of GW is what you want it to be. GW is hardly tied down to lore so much that other features have not been added.

I want GW to be a game where every just has sex and posts pictures of child and animal pornography

Rethink what you said

trielementz · Oct 12, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I want GW to be a game where every just has sex and posts pictures of child and animal pornography

Rethink what you said

his remark was in relation to physical aspects of players' toons, which is what this thread is all about. i don't think your analogy is relevant at all.

blue.rellik · Oct 12, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by trielementz

his remark was in relation to physical aspects of players' toons, which is what this thread is all about. i don't think your analogy is relevant at all.

Anyone that has any knowledge of game design would understand there are fundamental aspects that goes inside it. A game is broken up into two different parts, all games are, these are the game-play elements and the flavor of the game.

The game-play element of the game is indeed the most important part but any good game designer knows that you must also consider the flavor of it, basically something must make sense inside the context of the game.

In Half-Life too, the designers had originally intended the Gravity Gun as a means to test the physics capabilities of the Source engine but found that it was 'really cool and fun' so they implemented it into the proper story. However adding things 'because it's fun and cool' can ruin games unless well thought out. Valve did this, they did an excellent job in fitting the GGun into the HL world but they had to consider game-play options, while it is needed in some parts of the game and it certainly can be used as a weapon to kill most enemies it however you do not always require it to beat the game.

Sex-change in Guild Wars, although something that I do not doubt could be easily implemented, is something that does not fit into the flavour of the game. Half Life 2 (and it's predecessor as well as the expansions) is a serious FPS with a deep and complex story, as a result you rarely find any moments of humour as it would ruin the gameplay (the correct term is suspension of disbelief). If Gordan Freeman had decided that he wanted to sit back and watch TV and let the other humans deal with the combine or play hockey would be a major breach in suspension in disbelief. It betrays everything he has done up to that point, it loses the immersion factor that the game has built up to that point.

Much is the same with Guild Wars, it is a game where lore wise, you're the hero that strikes down the Lich, Shiro, Abaddon and the Great Destroyer (and Mallyx, Urgoz etc etc). While the acting is hardly Oscar worthy and the game is riddled with pop culture and humour, it is a relatively serious game. The Searing was not meant to be a happy moment, nor is discovering the evils of the White Mantle, the Vizier being the Lich Lord etc etc. These are things that are meant to make the player accept their roles better (aka role-play) and continue the story and in continuing the story, you eventually hope to achieve the ending and 'save the day'. In essence you're trying to become the hero of the world.

Now imagine that, you and Gordan Freeman are both people trying to save the world, him from the Combine, you from Lich/Shiro/Abaddon/TGD because that's 'right' (within the context of the game and our perspective) so it doesn't break the suspension of disbelief, it's what the games were made for, flavor-wise that is.

Now imagine this, Gordan Freeman deciding that after he's beaten the Combine, he wants to get a sex-change. Is that entirely possible to happen, that the mute doctor with a phD that has vanquished a alien army wants to change his gender for whatever reasons that will remain unknown to the player? Of course it's possible, anything is possible in a game.
The question however is, is it probable that the saviour of the human race wants to replace his genitalia? No. It breaks the suspension of disbelief because it is not something we have ever been presented from that character within the context of the game. If Valve designed Half Life 2 so that it was obvious that Dr. Freeman was a flaming transexual who wanted to end up on in the local red light district then him wanting a sex change would be completely fine as we were presented with a character like that.

Now Guild Wars on the other hand is a mmorpg, it's clearly different from Half Life 2 (headcrabs aside). Now while the game-play is different, the flavor of the game are both similar and feature the same foundations. While there are times where the player does laugh (such as Palawa Joko, Koss and the mental-institution escapee Gwen), it in general remains a serious game. You go out of town, find monsters to kill because they looked at your funny, find more monsters because they insulted your mother and occasionally go kill some more monsters, this time because you want to sell their hide. There are other things you can do (like the mini games and talk with other players) but they both fall within the context of you being a hero.

Now with that said, hopefully people can understand why changing their genders doesn't fit. Yes there is nothing wrong with it but flavor reasons disagree.

trielementz · Oct 12, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

notice i didn't say i disagree with your point. i merely said that analogies of "children pictures and animal pornography" isn't relevant. nor is it tasteful.

Akaraxle · Oct 12, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

To the OP: never, I hope. Changing sex or appearance with a click is stupid in an RPG, hair tops.

Jongo River · Oct 12, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

All these context arguments are just silly. Yes, if you want an NPC in game, then sex-change would probably look out of place. Hair-stylist and Cosmetics (skin tone) should be fine, though.

However, there's really no reason that an editor *outside* of the gameworld should be limited or not exist (other than Anet not doing it). You'd have to follow players around and watch for changes, for it to have any impact on your game.

cyberjanet · Oct 12, 2007, 10:53 AM // 10:53

You can do this already. It's called buying new armour.

Aera Lure · Oct 12, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

The question however is, is it probable that the saviour of the human race wants to replace his genitalia?

No the question is why are real life sex change operation concerns, prejudices and phobias intruding into a game? An argument like this fails, monumentally, given we can choose to play a character in a game as whichever gender we choose. Its furthermore assumed that this is the character, not us, literally. Meh.

Anyway, I dont really see the need for character gender change in the game, setting aside the silliness above. It would in most, if not all, circumstances also require a name change, which is a complete re-roll except that you save character accomplishment.

What I would love to see, and have wished for this for a long time (ever since Factions got released), is the ability to change at the very least hair style and color. Would be nice, given the release of new face styles, and the very limited choice of decent ones from Prophecies alone, to be able to change the face too, but that's less important to me personally.

pamelf · Oct 12, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Scrap the sex change. I'm happy to start a new character for that. Scrap the face change. If i want a totally different looking character i'll start a new one then too.

But DO bring in an option to change hair, for the pure reason that the new campaigns brought in new hairstyles and should be available to the toons of all races. There's no reason in or out of game this should not be implemented.

Sleeper Service · Oct 12, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

way to go comparing two RADICALLY different games to defend an opinion that has nothing to do with neither.

we CLICK ON BUTTONS in this game in case you haven't noticed. we level up, we give points to certain attributes... ITS NOT REAL.

dude if your stance on changing physical characteristics in a videogame is so severe id hate to hear what your opinion of it is in RL.

Talking about suspension of disbelief only goes so far, the game, book, movies WHATEVER is a purely personal experience. People who go round saying "you should see it like this" or "its like that" have no clue what they are on about and i suggest they take their massive self-centered egos out their asses.

Dont like it? dont use it. /End

nugzta · Oct 12, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Agree, some people take this game too seriously tbh.

Akaraxle · Oct 12, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

way to go comparing two RADICALLY different games to defend an opinion that has nothing to do with neither.

we CLICK ON BUTTONS in this game in case you haven't noticed. we level up, we give points to certain attributes... ITS NOT REAL.

dude if your stance on changing physical characteristics in a videogame is so severe id hate to hear what your opinion of it is in RL.

Talking about suspension of disbelief only goes so far, the game, book, movies WHATEVER is a purely personal experience. People who go round saying "you should see it like this" or "its like that" have no clue what they are on about and i suggest they take their massive self-centered egos out their asses.

Dont like it? dont use it. /End

You don't understand. Changing physical traits goes against the concept of identity, because your roleplaying character DOES have an identity. If it was a button smasher type of game I'd understand, but since they decided to dump some lore and RP traits in it you ought to stick to the basic rules of the genre.

How would you react if Cynn or Devona changed faces once a week?

P.S. Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm totally in favor of hair style/color change. I don't actively support it because I simply don't care, but it does make sense and many MMORPGs (example: Ragnarok Online) allow that.

mazey vorstagg · Oct 12, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

The only way you should be able to change your character's sex is if you lose all customizations you had. If you were a hench male warrior and suddenly turned into a skinny female one, obviously you're armor wouldn't fit any more and your customized sword grip wouldn't be comfortable.

Halmyr · Oct 12, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

You don't understand. Changing physical traits goes against the concept of identity, because your roleplaying character DOES have an identity. If it was a button smasher type of game I'd understand, but since they decided to dump some lore and RP traits in it you ought to stick to the basic rules of the genre.

Ok....so my character got into a battle, go badly injured, so much so to the point of disfiguration. He wants to restore and fix a few things he did't like.
He wants to change his Nose and his eyebrows because people always fun of them when he was young. (aka face change).

Or, When he was born, he had both sexual part....the parent decided to make him a boy, but in reality, he was a girl. So he wants to change over to become a female with the help of magic.

These could be example of Rp reasons to use face/sex change

Quote:

How would you react if Cynn or Devona changed faces once a week?

I would't care, it does not really affect game play.

Quote:

P.S. Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm totally in favor of hair style/color change. I don't actively support it because I simply don't care, but it does make sense and many MMORPGs (example: Ragnarok Online) allow that

Ok .... *prepares Anti-flame shield, suit and helmet*

Many MMORPG include Runescape....no matter how horribly bad it is....it allows for face/hair change, and it also allows for Sex Change.

The sex/face change, does not affect any one but the persone who changes it. And as far as the resons against it I only see two reasons that keeps poping up

1: Its ickeee ( really grow up)

2: there is no roleplaying reasons to do this ( does there really have to be?)

Akaraxle · Oct 12, 2007, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I give up.

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